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  • Track Day Miata Rollbar

    Hi guys new on the forum. I've been doing track days for the last few years with NASA and PCA Las Vegas. Currently run in HPDE 3 with NASA. I started with an E30 then moved on to an R56 Cooper S. I didn't feel like abusing the MINI anymore so I picked up a 1990 Miata with a Hard Top for cheap. I'm doing all the maintenance stuff first but would like to get the Rollbar ordered. I've read a million threads on Miata Rollbars but I have a few questions. I'm not sure if I want the HardCore regular or the Hardcore Hard top or equivalent. The difference being the Hardcore non hardtop is 1.5" taller but 3 inches closer to my head. I'm 5'11" tall and have about 3"-4" from my head to hardtop. Just wondering if I should go for taller & closer to head vs shorter but further from head. I appreciate any feedback.
    Thanks,
    JR

  • #2
    We opt for the hard top version with SFI padding and a one piece race seat bolted to the floor. At your height, the stock seat is not a safe choice. The race seat will get you in a better driving position and obviate the concerns about helmet to main hoop clearance.

    Virtually every HPDE car we have anything to do with gets the M2 (NB) Hard Dog-Hard Core-Hard Top double diagonal.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm 6' and have a 95 Miata with a hardtop. What I have/did is exactly what Emilio does/recommends and I'd do it again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the response Emilio. That's all I needed to hear. So I should order the M2 Hard Core Hard Top bar even though my car's an NA? Just want to make sure.
        Thanks,
        Jenaro






        Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
        We opt for the hard top version with SFI padding and a one piece race seat bolted to the floor. At your height, the stock seat is not a safe choice. The race seat will get you in a better driving position and obviate the concerns about helmet to main hoop clearance.

        Virtually every HPDE car we have anything to do with gets the M2 (NB) Hard Dog-Hard Core-Hard Top double diagonal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dicej32 View Post
          Thanks for the response Emilio. That's all I needed to hear. So I should order the M2 Hard Core Hard Top bar even though my car's an NA? Just want to make sure.
          Thanks,
          Jenaro
          M2 Hard Core Roll Bar 99-05 Miata Hardtop

          The NB bar has kinked rear stays to allow a glass rear window soft top to fold flat. Nice bonus with no real penalty otherwise.
          WWW.949RACING.COM
          SuperMiata

          Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
          But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

          Comment


          • #6
            There are many in the Miata community that keep recommending the same old bar, simply because they don't realize there are better products.
            You may want to consider ordering a Blackbird Fabworx roll bar instead.
            I will start a new thread shortly to show what is available and what makes us better

            No, we don't make them in the same M2 double diagonal version because of a number of reasons -
            1. There's no harness bar on the M2, there are some lame tabs that no one that cares about their safety will use and they also sell a harness bar that gets "awesome" reviews - do some research, don't take my word on it.
            If you want to take your car to the track you're going to want racing seats at some point (as Emilio recommended), and you do not want to run racing seat w/o a harness, and therefore a harness bar.
            Our bars come with proper harness bars.

            But even if we disregard the need to run harnesses in the future, from structural standpoint the M2 bar has no secondary support brace to prevent is from changing width in a good side hit. At that point only the main hoop is there, which is a tube with 4 bends in it.
            By adding an integrated harness bar as you'll find in our roll bars, there's a secondary support.

            2. DD bars have the worst rear visibility.
            Yeah, it's hard to believe that a roll bar like our GT3 model is in fact better in that regards, but those who actually tried it know that this is indeed the case.
            Again, no need to take my word on it, this has been verified many times over, and in one specific case, after many people asked that very question -
            Roll Bar And Visibility - 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata Long-Term Road Test

            Here's a PSA I posted a long time ago to help sorting things out -
            Click image for larger version

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            3. Life is too short to have the same ol' Black roll bar like everyone else, which is why custom powder coating is available with any of our bars for a small additional fee.
            Let me know what you want, or, if you're local feel free to stop by at the shop to check out the color chart, put it next to your car, etc..

            4. If you're intimidated by drilling and cutting into your car, we offer same day installation service (by appointment).
            Drop your car off in the morning, pick it up same day with a roll bar installed, all plastic pieces and carpets trimmed and reinstalled.
            We also have SFI rated padding in stock if you want to pick some up to protect your noggin or we can even install that for you on the spot.

            5. Support your forum sponsor!
            Last edited by Blackbird; 04-11-2015, 07:24 AM.
            Moti

            Blackbird Fabworx - Quality Performance Fabrication

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            • #7
              If you have a couple more minutes to dedicate to researching the product, here is a direct comparison between the bar you're thinking of to one of ours from a customer who happens to be a well respected vendor / long time member in the Miata community (Adam from Revlimiter.net) -
              Blackbird Fabworx GT3 Rollbar Install — revlimiter.net

              He even reviewed the harness bar I mentioned earlier
              Moti

              Blackbird Fabworx - Quality Performance Fabrication

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blackbird View Post
                If you have a couple more minutes to dedicate to researching the product, here is a direct comparison between the bar you're thinking of to one of ours from a customer who happens to be a well respected vendor / long time member in the Miata community (Adam from Revlimiter.net) -
                Blackbird Fabworx GT3 Rollbar Install — revlimiter.net

                He even reviewed the harness bar I mentioned earlier
                Cost comparison?

                HC HT DD with padding and harness bar is $650
                WWW.949RACING.COM
                SuperMiata

                Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
                But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
                  Cost comparison?

                  HC HT DD with padding and harness bar is $650
                  Boy am I glad you asked!

                  We don't make DD for reasons stated above, but our comparable SD with FAR superior design and integrated harness bar is $625.
                  A couple sticks of SFI rated padding are about $30 and cover a little more than the HD formed piece, so you can actually cover not just the hoop but the top section of the diagonal and the tops of the rear legs as well.
                  Do that and you're at $655.
                  I guess you'll need to invest a whole lot of FIVE extra dollars to get a better product.

                  That is for our NB bar, which is the "expensive" one.
                  Same bar for the NA chassis is $475.
                  Both fit the OEM soft and hard tops.

                  After realizing that the prices are pretty close, you might even start feeling spendy and take advantage of our custom color option and drop something like $50-80 MORE to get it finished in whatever color you want.
                  So if you wanted something like metallic Silver, or metallic Gold, or maybe you just want a gorgeous Laguna Blue, you WILL need to pay more dammit!
                  Holy s**t, someone stop Mr. Moneybags here!

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Oh, and all BFW bars are finished with nicer quality powder coat than your comparable HD bar.
                  Call me picky, I want my stuff to look like a million doll hairs when it's all said and done so I am willing to pay more for a nicer finish of my bars.
                  Sometimes my OCD kicks into high gear and I even have custom color decals made for bars, so when a customer rolls in on Wednesday to have his bar installed and asks if we have a Red decal by any chance to match his Red car, I open my drawer and check.
                  Lucky bastard, I had the last one (Ryan, I need a few Red ones ...) -

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Yes, ^ that it our bank-account-draining NA bar in it's full $475 form, nice quality powder coat (this is the standard color no charge option, 60% Gloss Black), wrapped with exactly 2 sticks of SFI padding from Longacre.

                  And now we get to those who just feel like they want to spring $200 more on buying the best damn looking roll bar ever made for Miatas.
                  Holy crap.
                  Don't they know that they are supposed to cheap out because Miatas are cheap cars?
                  Why would they want the best looking roll bar in their OWN damn car?!
                  The Blackbird Fabworx GT3 model sells for ground shaking $675 for the NA chassis (plastic window soft top) and earth shattering $825 for the NB chassis (also for NA with glass window soft top).
                  Both include harness bars.
                  It would've been nice to compare this to any HD model, but their X-brace bars don't have harness bars. So you have to buy that awesome separate bolt in one they make.

                  Or you can have this one -
                  Click image for larger version

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                  And one more note with regards to the design feature you mentioned - the kink in the rear legs of the HD M2 bar.
                  I don't have the patience to dig through the wording in SCCA or NASA rule book currently, but IIRC both expressly prohibit putting any bends in the rear legs of cages, and for a good reason.
                  While they *may* be legal for roll bars (and I doubt it), this is still a bad piece of design.
                  Rear legs need to be straight.
                  They are indeed straight on ALL Blackbird Fabworx roll bars, including the ones for NB, which allows the glass window to lay flat on the rear deck.
                  And guess what, our bar also attaches closer to the rear shock towers, where the additional chassis stiffness is nice to have.

                  We've done our homework.
                  You're welcome
                  Last edited by Blackbird; 04-10-2015, 10:46 PM.
                  Moti

                  Blackbird Fabworx - Quality Performance Fabrication

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That was pretty funny. Laguna blue is my new favorite color. You should encourage your customers to roll their cars more often, Moti. Post-roll photos are pretty persuasive.
                    2001 MR2-Eleven
                    Experience Points: 21
                    Youtube Channel.

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                    • #11
                      Yes.
                      Please customers, stop driving so carefully!
                      Moti

                      Blackbird Fabworx - Quality Performance Fabrication

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not a Blackbird Fabworx roll bar owner but I've seen a lot of BBF roll bars in cars that have come through the shop. The fit and finish is ALWAYS outstanding. Most I've seen have had Moti and crew do the installation. So clean it looks factory. Why would anyone in Socal ever install their own bar? Moti's already nailed all the engineering points so I won't go there. Suffice it to say I agree strongly with Moti. It is amazing to me how many Miata's have the BBF roll bar now. I roll around LA and see these things everywhere. Pretty impressive.

                        Mark
                        AiM Data and Video systems, Suspension Setup, Race car builds, support, and rentals. At your beck and call.

                        Mark Nichols
                        Iron Canyon Motorsports
                        http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          But surely MORE diagonals must be BETTER!?

                          ...Nevermind that the center of the main hoop isn't the part that needs reinforcing...

                          -Ryan
                          Ryan Passey
                          Singulär Motorsports | Goodwin Racing

                          #13 1990 Miata
                          "The sport dedicating to the spirits of time attacking motoring" -Emilio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thepass View Post
                            But surely MORE diagonals must be BETTER!?
                            Everyone knows that MORE is BETTER!!

                            I'm proud to introduce the very first TRIPLE diagonal roll bar!

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Yes ladies and gentlemen, let's count them together - those are one, two, THREE diagonals!
                            We call it the Blackbird Fabworx OMG bar
                            Moti

                            Blackbird Fabworx - Quality Performance Fabrication

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blackbird View Post
                              5. Support your forum sponsor!
                              ^ This + 100
                              www.TrackHQ.com

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