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Wider Tire Effect On Buttonwillow 13CW Laptime

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  • Wider Tire Effect On Buttonwillow 13CW Laptime

    I'm looking forward to upgrading to 17x9s and 255 square setup from my current 16x7 205 and 16x8 225 setup.

    All else the same, how many seconds can I be expecting to shave for my laptimes?

    2-3 seconds?

  • #2
    AP1?
    power?
    Aero?
    Current lap time?
    In car video?
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

    Comment


    • #3
      Yup an AP1 with stock power and no aero, and a current lap time of 2:07

      Comment


      • #4
        Still too many undefined variables but it shouldn't really matter. Assuming the exact same model of tire, it will be a few seconds faster. Presumably, you will switch to a stickier tire at the same time.
        The single biggest improvement in lap time from a stock AP1 will be driver coaching. Second would be tire compound, not size. Third maybe size. Fourth is suspension stuff. AP1 really need way more front roll stiffness, front roll center correction and rear toe curve correction. Even with stock shocks it will stop trying to kill you with those mods done.

        I finally got my AP1 to balance without any aero with these mods:
        (pro level driver)
        255/40 on 17x9 front
        275/40 on 17x10 rear
        Neuspeed 32mm front bar
        OEM AP2 25.4mm rear bar
        T1 Racing rear toe link, toe curve correction
        Front roll center adjuster, forget the brand
        Tein H tech lowering springs
        stock shocks
        -3.5 front camber
        -2.5 rear camber
        stock toe and caster

        Very few S2K drivers run staggered setups. Instead most run a much looser mechanical grip balance in their setup then rely on a big wang to reduce the spinnage.
        A few different people drove my AP1 and told me it was the best handling S2K they had ever driven. Won some S2K Challenge Mod class events in it with that setup.


        WWW.949RACING.COM
        SuperMiata

        Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
        But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

        Comment


        • #5
          Yea driver mod is definitely the biggest difference. I'd love to have you drive my car if we meet at an event next time!

          I think I'll just stick with the current staggered setup and work on getting the most out of it first (drive better lol) before going to a square setup with wing.

          And wow impressive setup! I was also looking into front roll center adjuster and rear toe link and I'm also running -3.5 front and -2.5 rear. Do you have videos of you driving your AP1?

          Thanks Emilio!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
            rear toe curve correction.


            What is that? AKA...Bumpsteer?

            Comment


            • #7
              Yah. Honda was pretty aggressive with the rear toe steer on the AP1 to make sure it wouldn't understeer. But it was really a bit too aggressive. As the car pitched with small throttle inputs, the rear would waggle quite a bit. A stock AP1 is kind of like a mid-80s 911. They're basically trying to kill you all the time.

              The shape of the curve is pretty similar to what you would see on most IRS cars just higher amplitude. They tamed the amplitude of the toe changes for the AP2 and it was a much better handling car as a result. The fix for the AP1 is pretty simple. You just put a toe ink with some spacers that changes the pivot point a little bit like you would on a the outer tie rod end of the steering rack.


              I never published too many videos from back then 2009 or so. On YouTube look for 949 Racing page. I'd be happy to put a data lap in your car the next time you see me at the track. But I'm pretty busy on the weekends these days so I don't go to the track as often as I used to. Sonny Watanasirisuk is part of our racing team and does data coaching. He's highly sought-after in southern California so I would hit him up. Just type is name into Facebook to DM. He was actually at streets of Willow today coaching a car control clinic.
              Last edited by emilio700; 12-28-2018, 10:26 PM.
              WWW.949RACING.COM
              SuperMiata

              Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
              But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

              Comment


              • #8
                A stock AP1 is kind of like a mid-80s 911. They're basically trying to kill you all the time.


                Aha yes I've heard of Sonny and he is quite a driver (seen his YT vids). I've seen a video of you commenting on Charles Ng doing manji with R compounds too! Did you coach Charles Ng back then?

                Thanks for the tips!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by samsam5886 View Post


                  Aha yes I've heard of Sonny and he is quite a driver (seen his YT vids). I've seen a video of you commenting on Charles Ng doing manji with R compounds too! Did you coach Charles Ng back then?

                  Thanks for the tips!
                  Whatever happened to Charles? I haven't heard anything about him in quite awhile. Last I heard I think he was racing somewhere in Asia.
                  99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
                  '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yup looks like he is! https://www.youtube.com/user/ngcharleshk/videos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by samsam5886 View Post


                      Aha yes I've heard of Sonny and he is quite a driver (seen his YT vids). I've seen a video of you commenting on Charles Ng doing manji with R compounds too! Did you coach Charles Ng back then?

                      Thanks for the tips!
                      No, I never coached Charles. I merely loaned him my car so he could get his first Formula Drift license in.. 2008? His car (LS powered S14) was apart and wasn't going going back together anytime soon. I did some other promotional stuff too although I can't remember what that was now. Kinda co-sponsored to help him get his start over here. 2 years later he was racing touring cars in Asia.
                      WWW.949RACING.COM
                      SuperMiata

                      Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
                      But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

                      Comment

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