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CCW at the Bowl

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  • CCW at the Bowl

    Just want to share a new line I learned at the last outing to Street of Willow CCW. I've seem so many people including myself taking the line in "Red". The Slower Line by Hugging the upper part of the bowl scrubbing off speed without braking for the second apex.

    Slower Line
    Click image for larger version

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    The line illustrated in green below was a second faster, at least for me. You do not need to brake as hard on the entry (compared to above) because of the larger radius arc for the first apex. But you need to tap the brakes just a little before the turn-in for the second apex. Watch out for the bump near the second apex turn-in. It can unsettle the car.

    See video here for Bump:
    3:59 into video, you can see the car hopping over the bump.
    http://www.trackhq.com/forums/showpo...68&postcount=3

    Faster Line:
    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    I agree with your line, although I believe your braking point is very early, braking shouldn't begin until just before the apex where all of the (my) skidmarks are from braking. This uses the uphill part of the bowl to assist in your braking. This can be as scary as turn 9 on the big track, but can take off some serious time and be used to pass people on the bowl as well.
    John
    #522 996 Spec / GTS3
    JC3D // Racecars and Keyframes // 996 Spec

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    • #3
      JC, what type of car are you driving that deep into the corner?
      AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

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      • #4
        Originally posted by JC3D View Post
        I agree with your line, although I believe your braking point is very early, braking shouldn't begin until just before the apex where all of the (my) skidmarks are from braking. This uses the uphill part of the bowl to assist in your braking. This can be as scary as turn 9 on the big track, but can take off some serious time and be used to pass people on the bowl as well.
        It scares me already just reading your line. haha. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. Are you refering to the first or second braking point when you are saying brake just before the apex? If you are driving the 996, you should be traveling even faster at the turn in. That is nuts!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by zjchaser View Post
          JC, what type of car are you driving that deep into the corner?
          i believe a 996.

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          • #6
            ya......those were my thoughts....
            AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

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            • #7
              Now that would be one heck of a video.
              upload please

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              • #8
                trying that in the lotus I just envisiongoing off the top of the bowl backwards..lol. OK screw this, I'm going for a drive Its a gorgeous day.
                AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

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                • #9
                  I have never run this config, but even for CW direction, I tucked in the corner and avoided using the outer arc since I drive an underpower car.
                  Charles K. Ng


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                  • #10
                    Yes, that is the fast line through the bowl. Like JC3D, I am already beginning to turn in and I am at the middle part of the track just before corner entry when I start to brake. You can stay on the gas longer with this line and then brake hard and deep going up the bowl. The traction is tremendous that way. Then you need to ease off of the brakes and let the car start the heavy part of its turn. As MLK1 has said, it is possible to get the car loose even on that steep banking. I have found when I run passengers of 180lbs this direction my car compresses so much I rub my right rear tire as a transfer back to throttle. That is a lot of hook-up. You should use it.



                    PS. I am not sure what a jump-roping-sheep is for, but I have never used it before and it seemed like an opportune time to do so....
                    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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                    • #11
                      I was a passenger with Emillio once in his "rental" Miata. He was on full throttle, and did not brake until your 2nd brake point. but this is with 120HP and NT01.
                      S1 Supermiata - 220whp
                      13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
                      17 GT350R
                      03 Miata Club Sport
                      96 NSX
                      06 EVO MR
                      15 Mini Cooper S
                      Beck 550 Spyder

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                      • #12
                        will definately have to try that next time I run that direction.
                        AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, I was shown this line early when I was first learning Streets by a friend of JC3D's and mine and spent the whole day getting it down. By the end of the day, I couldn't bring myself to do the outside line, it just felt so much slower (because it is).

                          Check out my video of this day to see how I was doing it. I ended up braking lightly before the apex, but with a little bit more practice I could have gone through to the second braking point.
                          Aaron Kupferman | 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe | Visual Effects Electric Reality | Motorsports Photography Motorsport Lens | Other Photography AaronKupferman.com

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                          • #14
                            I forgot who I was chasing in another, earlier model Miata, but I'd take the "slow" line and he'd take the "fast" line and yup, he'd leave a second or two between us. It's much faster.

                            But I'm not sure I'm man enough yet to try that, even in a 180hp Miata on NT01s. Maybe when I get a roll-cage... because I just see this: slip, whoops, habitual correction, stick, fling, zoom, float, float, float, land, dirt, OUCH!!!

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                            • #15
                              Yes it is a 996. I think I owe it all to one of my instructors who basically pushed on my knee not allowing me to lift one time. I know its not the correct way to teach, but damn, it made me learn well, and I still have him instruct me at least one session every weekend. Sometimes with the late braking and that line i will have half of my tires off the top, and to load the car for the second apex, sometimes a bit of trailbraking depending how fast I am still going.
                              You can see me in one of Aaron's videos, or I have this one from back in January where I did a 1:31 on street tires with no blowpass, and the chicane still there. My line isn't textbook through the bowl for in between the apexes, but it shows the turn in for the first.

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX238FuYt3o

                              Oli, Is there a forum on this massive interweb you haven't brought the low brow too? It's ok, you can always drink our beer after the track goes cold.
                              John
                              #522 996 Spec / GTS3
                              JC3D // Racecars and Keyframes // 996 Spec

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