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Bench racing fun! - Who's @ fault?

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  • Bench racing fun! - Who's @ fault?

    Now for some bench-racing fun!

    Check out the Canadian footage from the last CTSCC "ST" race at GP3R in Trois Rivieres Quebec. If you're bored, list your thoughts on the two incidents:

    0:30 mark (#81 BMW, #24 BMW, #10 Kia)

    1:06 mark (#197 Mini, #26 MX5)

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOyQ2tH6H2w[/YOUTUBE]


    It'll be interesting to see TA & W2W THQ member's comments compared to biased team owners, drivers, and 'fans' on the Grand-Am forums.
    13
    #81 BMW & #26 MX5
    0.00%
    0
    #24 BMW & #26 MX5
    0.00%
    0
    #10 Kia & #26 MX5
    0.00%
    0
    #81 BMW & #197 Mini
    0.00%
    0
    #24 BMW & #197 Mini
    30.77%
    4
    #10 Kia & #197 Mini
    46.15%
    6
    Both incidents were no fault/"Just racing"
    23.08%
    3
    Last edited by Stuntman; 08-22-2010, 07:30 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Stuntman View Post
    Now for some bench-racing fun!

    Check out the Canadian footage from the last CTSCC "ST" race at GP3R in Trois Rivieres Quebec. If you're bored, list your thoughts on the two incidents:

    0:30 mark (#81 BMW, #24 BMW, #10 Kia)

    1:06 mark (#197 Mini, #26 MX5)


    It'll be interesting to see TA & W2W THQ member's comments compared to biased team owners, drivers, and 'fans' on the Grand-Am forums.
    double post. and I still can't see ****!

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok better. Depends greatly on what the rules are.

      At 1:06 the mini under NASA rules I believe is at fault because he never got alongside. Also, he didn't have a nose ahead, and he still had room to move inside if he was willing to wreck his momentum. 100% mini at fault

      For SCCA rules, for the car turning in maybe the contact was theoretically avoidable, but the overlap was only a bumper. I'd stick the car attempting the pass (and failing miserably) with the blame. 80% mini at fault

      Also, he had a big lock up whch usually screams "I f*ed up and I suck".

      Speaking of which, have you seen Richard's tires after a track day?
      Last edited by robburgoon; 08-22-2010, 08:04 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        #197 Mini... other incident was "just racing"...

        Comment


        • #5
          at 0:30 the 24 BMW automatically gets a kick to the head for not paying attention.

          Now, as far as fault, it's really hard to tell since the camera moves and you cant see the curb/wall.

          I'll pretend the 24 denied the car behind a car width at the wall and blame him under NASA rules.

          SCCA would probably just blame the car attempting the pass unless it was obvious that the 24 was squeezing the car behind into the wall.

          Comment


          • #6
            The poll is flawed because it doesn't allow for one of the two incidents was just a racing incident, and the other was one of the drivers' fault.

            I voted for "both are racing incidents" because crashes make racing, and especially wathcing racing, more fun. Bottom line, it really doesn't matter. Without crashes, nobody watches car racing.
            The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

            2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
            1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
            2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - my last track day car (FOR SALE or not, depending on how I feel when I fall out of bed tomorrow morning)
            2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

            Comment


            • #7
              MINI FTW! Only be cause I own one.
              If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

              Comment


              • #8
                At 0:30. Under NASA rules the passing car had his wheel past the passed car's driver so it's theoretically the passed car's fault. However the passing car has a responsibility to make a safe pass and the race director may well decide that that was an unsafe pass.

                Comment


                • #9
                  :30 - Kia's fault, hands down. He turns in WAY earlier than the Bimmers, and with far more entry speed; no way that was going to happen. Let me guess, Nic Jonsson was driving? In most pro series (other than NASCAR) that would get you a penalty.

                  1:06 - The Mini driver is clearly the cause of the incident... If he hadn't locked the brakes, he wouldn't have punted the Miata. Miata dude was committed to the corner anyway, wtf was he supposed to do?
                  HP Autowerks 335i - 1st Place @ RTA Las Vegas 2010
                  HP Autowerks 335i @ Buttonwillow - 1:59.1
                  HP Autowerks 335i @ Laguna Seca
                  Buttonwillow dorifto
                  Lexus IS-F @ Chuckwalla
                  100cc TonyKart @ Adams
                  125cc TonyKart Shifter @ Apex

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by apk919 View Post
                    #197 Mini... other incident was "just racing"...
                    ^This.
                    Driving to the limit is my goal.
                    Winning with Team 949 Racing is merely the result.
                    2013 NASA TTD National Champion
                    NASA 25 Hours of Thunderhill Winner: 2011 E2 Class & 2012 E1 Class.
                    Multiple wins in NASA PT and WERC series, with many more to come.


                    Cheer for us during races throughout the year and like us on Facebook and Twitter!

                    "Drive well and have fun." Drive W2W in the SuperMiata Race Series. Also, see me in action on YouTube.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by J. Tyler View Post
                      :30 - Kia's fault, hands down. He turns in WAY earlier than the Bimmers, and with far more entry speed; no way that was going to happen. Let me guess, Nic Jonsson was driving? In most pro series (other than NASCAR) that would get you a penalty.
                      I could buy that. The trouble is the camera angle sucked so it's hard to tell. Also I had the impression that the leading car was slow, so it was tough to tell if the cars were at/near the limit of adhesion or not.

                      If the Kia was understeering on the way in, I can go along with that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robburgoon View Post
                        I could buy that. The trouble is the camera angle sucked so it's hard to tell. Also I had the impression that the leading car was slow, so it was tough to tell if the cars were at/near the limit of adhesion or not.

                        If the Kia was understeering on the way in, I can go along with that.
                        I have two theories:

                        1) The lead BMW was not at the limit, and was trying to 'park' the following BMW to get a bit of a run down the next straight. The following BMW responded by late-apexing the corner a bit (to try to compensate and give himself a run down the straight); however, this late-apex left a bit of a door open for the Kia. The Kia then took a mile instead of a the inch he was given....

                        2) The lead BMW knew that Nic Jonsson was driving the car following the 2nd BMW, and therefore knew that a dive-bomb punt on his opponent was imminent. He then intentionally parked the 2nd BMW going into the corner, knowing that Nic would drop-kick his ass at the slightest opportunity. He (the lead BMW) then went from having a competitive car right on him to a comfortable ~2-sec lead.


                        HP Autowerks 335i - 1st Place @ RTA Las Vegas 2010
                        HP Autowerks 335i @ Buttonwillow - 1:59.1
                        HP Autowerks 335i @ Laguna Seca
                        Buttonwillow dorifto
                        Lexus IS-F @ Chuckwalla
                        100cc TonyKart @ Adams
                        125cc TonyKart Shifter @ Apex

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by J. Tyler View Post
                          I have two theories:

                          1) The lead BMW was not at the limit, and was trying to 'park' the following BMW to get a bit of a run down the next straight. The following BMW responded by late-apexing the corner a bit (to try to compensate and give himself a run down the straight); however, this late-apex left a bit of a door open for the Kia. The Kia then took a mile instead of a the inch he was given....

                          2) The lead BMW knew that Nic Jonsson was driving the car following the 2nd BMW, and therefore knew that a dive-bomb punt on his opponent was imminent. He then intentionally parked the 2nd BMW going into the corner, knowing that Nic would drop-kick his ass at the slightest opportunity. He (the lead BMW) then went from having a competitive car right on him to a comfortable ~2-sec lead.


                          #2 would be a rockstar move if there ever was one!

                          What I would give for some onboard...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i havent seen the video, but im guessing robs fault.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J. Tyler View Post
                              :30 - Kia's fault, hands down. He turns in WAY earlier than the Bimmers, and with far more entry speed; no way that was going to happen. Let me guess, Nic Jonsson was driving? In most pro series (other than NASCAR) that would get you a penalty.

                              1:06 - The Mini driver is clearly the cause of the incident... If he hadn't locked the brakes, he wouldn't have punted the Miata. Miata dude was committed to the corner anyway, wtf was he supposed to do?
                              100% agreed. In the Kia/BMW accident, I'd also add that the Kia struck the BMW by holding an attempted 'stolen' apex. Kia made contact at the middle of the BMW, clearly not cleanly beyond. Typical apex dive bomb-related crash.

                              I think the Mini broke, but regardless the Miata was committed to the corner and probably could not have stopped in a straight line without hitting a retaining wall.
                              Hella Functional

                              Comment

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