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Cost analysis for club racing

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  • emilio700
    started a topic Cost analysis for club racing

    Cost analysis for club racing

    I asked William to crunch the numbers for me. Our intent with SuperMiata was to bring club racing to it's roots. Just good racing and no frills. To attract racers, we knew we would have to keep costs down to a minimum. Here's how things add up.

    SuperMiata
    vs
    National club racing (in least expensive class in a Miata)

    Registration - race and TT
    $280.00 SPM
    $579.00 National
    - National add $50 if registered <14 days before event, or $100 more if registered onsite

    Tire cost per weekend
    Hoosier SM6 lasts 1 wknd, Maxxis RC1 lasts 2 wknds
    $220.00 SPM
    $660.00 National

    Cost difference / weekend - registration and tires
    $500.00 SPM
    $1,239.00 National


    Other considerations

    Transponder rental
    $20.00 SPM
    $40.00 National

    Tire cost for one set: vs.
    $440.00 SPM - Maxxis RC1
    $660.00 PTE -Hoosier SM6

    Yearly membership
    $0.00 SPM
    $45.00 National

    # of sessions per weekend
    12 SPM
    14 National

    # of races per weekend
    3 SPM
    2 National
    SPM is 3 races per weekend, 1 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday. NASA is 1 race per day

    # of downloads per weekend (mandatory)
    4 SPM
    8 National
    - National TT and race group are back to back, with downloads, you can't run all TT and race
    sessions. May be 10 sessions per weekend. SV race group runs in red group (TT), so there is
    no back to back issue, although 1 race per day is back to back. So about 10 sessions per weekend

    # of driver's meeting per weekend
    4 SPM
    4 National
    - SV do not require TT driver's meeting, if you've done it on Saturday. So you can wake up late
    after Saturday's night's BBQ and beer

    Getting out early on Sunday
    1pm ish
    3pm ish
    - SPM's last race on Sunday is around 1pm ish. NASA PT group is always later on Sunday.

    TT driver's meeting on each day
    8am or later SPM
    7am National

    Licensing
    This is a big variable. The Speed Ventures / SuperMiata comp license is free to any person cleared for the red run group. You just have to go through a checkout session with the race director, usually Aaron. With most National club race groups, a comp license can cost a racer anywhere from $500-2500 once you add up fees for one of the approved racing schools and paid for the comp license fees. This might be the single largest cost savings with SPM compared to any National organization.

    We haven't talked about the spec for the cars but it's pretty much the same thing, 50-75% less up front cost to build a competitive SPM than a competitive PTE or Spec Miata.

  • rhouck
    replied
    Originally posted by robburgoon View Post
    How many events have you done and how many injuries?
    In the last year? 26 "events" (track days and race days), including 27 race starts (20 top 5s, 8 podiums). Zero injuries.

    In my life, I have had exactly one serious motorcycle-related injury... and it was after I had gone home from a race event and was riding a street bike at 25mph down a city street. Luckily, no one makes illegal u-turns on a race track (except maybe at an eXtremespeed track day).

    Not going to say they never happen, because obviously they do. But it also happens in every form of real motorsport.

    Leave a comment:


  • robburgoon
    replied
    Originally posted by rhouck View Post
    Rare. Most crashes fixed for <$100 and no injury besides bruises and ego.

    RISK of injury helps weed out the morons
    How many events have you done and how many injuries?

    Leave a comment:


  • rhouck
    replied
    Originally posted by robburgoon View Post
    Rate of injury?
    Rare. Most crashes fixed for <$100 and no injury besides bruises and ego.

    RISK of injury helps weed out the morons

    Leave a comment:


  • robburgoon
    replied
    Originally posted by rhouck View Post
    Purchase price for competitive: ~$4-6k

    Weekend cost:
    Registration: $250 (4 races, 4 practices, qualifying, plus Friday racer practice -- $50/additional race, some do 8/weekend)
    Motel: $0 (camp)
    Tires: $400 (1 new set per weekend, reuse takeoffs for practices)
    Gas: $30
    Towing fuel $50-100 (depends on vehicle)
    Generator gas: $10
    Other consumables:
    - brake pads/rotors: ~$10/weekend
    - oil/filter: $15/weekend

    Approximately $750/weekend of 4 races (plus practice and qualifying). Grid sizes 15-30 people with close, competitive racing. Will do sub-1:50 at Chuckwalla.

    All costs for middleweight (600cc) sportbike with CVMA
    Rate of injury?

    Leave a comment:


  • rhouck
    replied
    Purchase price for competitive: ~$4-6k

    Weekend cost:
    Registration: $250 (4 races, 4 practices, qualifying, plus Friday racer practice -- $50/additional race, some do 8/weekend)
    Motel: $0 (camp)
    Tires: $400 (1 new set per weekend, reuse takeoffs for practices)
    Gas: $30
    Towing fuel $50-100 (depends on vehicle)
    Generator gas: $10
    Other consumables:
    - brake pads/rotors: ~$10/weekend
    - oil/filter: $15/weekend

    Approximately $750/weekend of 4 races (plus practice and qualifying). Grid sizes 15-30 people with close, competitive racing. Will do sub-1:50 at Chuckwalla.

    All costs for middleweight (600cc) sportbike with CVMA

    Leave a comment:


  • fatbillybob
    replied
    I'm running SCCA T2 which is detuned 2012 T1. I used to race with Oli, Bill and JimT, etal. At 2014 Runoffs I was solidly midpack finished 9th of 20 cars so I can't impress anyone with my skill or ability to stress my equipment. That said, I'm still on my original 2004 Corvette motor, stock diff, stock shocks, T1 swaybars, Stoptech brakes, electric windows, A/C, +350lbs ballast so my car is underoptimized for the class. I run at least 3 race weekends/ set of tires but there is minimal local T2 presence so I can get away with it. My brake pads last me a season which is about 6 race weekends. Rotors I change about every few years out of paranoia when my car was shipped to out of state races and I wanted no possible failures. Oil changed every other race. Diligent pre-flight checks with clutch and brake bleeds as SOP. A race weekend is usually only swapping old cr@ppy tires for less cr@ppy tires for the race. I don't even add oil. The expenses you can expect are not that bad and for sure less than my old T1 crowd is spending today playing with Aero and mods in ST2/GT2. I don't think I can race much cheaper. What kills the budget is the random blown motor or visit to the bodyshop. BRP is $400 bucks in entry fees, $40/nite at the chateau 6, gas/diesel, and tires. I think I'm getting away pretty cheap. I better buy Oli lunch next time I see him.

    Leave a comment:


  • markn
    replied
    Anytime a car leaves the shop for a race weekend I debit 1500 from the account and pretend that nothing ever goes wrong or breaks and the cost to prep the car is zero. HA. No consumables (fluids, brakes, etc) are counted either.

    450 entry fees
    650 tires - we use one set per weekend, some use more, some use less
    250 tow vehicle diesel
    150 race car gas - I use only 91 octane gas from the track pumps to get consistent fuel quality. Plus I'm lazy and don't want to stop.

    I stay at the track in a motorhome. Doesn't really save any money but makes the venture much more bearable and means I don't have to count hotel costs and I'm not including food costs as we do our own cooking

    Typically NASA race times start when the first car enters the track and ends when the last car rolls in. SCCA uses the green and checkered flags to time race length except at AAA. The net effect is that the SCCA races and qualifying are a couple of laps longer than NASA typically as the in and out laps are pretty slow.

    Leave a comment:


  • jimt
    replied
    Originally posted by redtopz View Post
    Registration $350
    Motel $150
    Tires $1500
    Gas $150 (triple for race gas)
    Towing fuel $150-$200
    Other consumables/misc repairs $300/weekend
    Pretty spot on to my budgeting over the years. I can stretch tires to a second weekend depending on temperatures. Also, I had 3+ years on my diff before it needed a rebuild, and my transmission has been running strong for over 5 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • bellwilliam
    replied
    Originally posted by redtopz View Post
    . SCCA is also more expensive because they spec out the parts you have to run rather than leaving them open like nasa does. Since nasa is power to weight if your engine makes less power then you just have to work on reducing weight. .
    you nailed it here. spec racing is not cheaper. never has, never will.

    when everyone has the exact same parts. if you can spend extra $5,000 (polish, rebuild or just swap out parts till you get the one) to gain that extra 4 whp (in say a low hp Miata). it is worth it, because you are almost guaranteed a front running. $5k is nothing is grand scheme of things, look at how much you spend in a season.

    Leave a comment:


  • emilio700
    replied
    Originally posted by Jamz14 View Post
    We run Toyo RR's . ..
    So break down what you actually spend in a regional weekend for SCCA and NASA please. Actual costs for your team, not theoretical.
    Entries
    Fuel for car
    Fuel for tow rig
    Fuel to transport crew, if any
    Lodging
    Meals
    Consumables


    Maybe throw in the total minutes of track time and minutes of racing

    Leave a comment:


  • robburgoon
    replied
    By my napkin, $2k a weekend in tires and drivetrain. Oy.

    Leave a comment:


  • redtopz
    replied
    ST2 corvettes are probably cheaper to run than most would guess. Once you get them set up properly that is. Obviously still way more than running a miata, but still doable for many people. Getting a car that is already setup for racing is key. You need good cooling (oil, tranny, diff), skf hubs, big brake kit with cooling, turn 1 ps pump, poly or spherical suspension bearings, wing/splitter, and good shocks. A dry sump will make your engine last multiple years and is worth the $3-5k investment IMO. My corvette came with most of this stuff for under $20k. But figure $30k for a race ready car with spares. Tires are going to be your biggest cost especially if you don't win contingencies. A set will cost you $1500 and you will need 1 set per race weekend. Brake pads last maybe 3 weekends and rotors can last a season. Front pads are around $300. With proper fluids and cooling, the drivetrain should last multiple seasons. Maybe a rebuilt clutch once every year or 2 and rebuilt diff/tranny every 2-3 years. Engine rebuild is around $5k and crate LS3 is around $6500 with intake manifold and throttle body. Gas is another big cost compared to miatas especially if you run or mix race gas. ST2 is cheaper than SCCA because you can run a stock engine on 91 pump gas. In SCCA you pretty much need a built engine on race gas to be competitive. SCCA is also more expensive because they spec out the parts you have to run rather than leaving them open like nasa does. Since nasa is power to weight if your engine makes less power then you just have to work on reducing weight. So a typical weekend:

    Registration $350
    Motel $150
    Tires $1500
    Gas $150 (triple for race gas)
    Towing fuel $150-$200
    Other consumables/misc repairs $300/weekend

    Maybe $2500 per weekend? Obviously tires are the biggest variable. Winning tires or running more/less per weekend will greatly affect costs. It also costs a lot of money to acquire all the spares you need unless they came with the car (wheels, brake pads/rotors, hubs, tranny, diff, clutch, axles, control arms, fluids, etc etc). Corvette guys feel free to add to or correct any of my figures which are just off the top of my head.

    But if you consider these cars are typically among the fastest production based cars at the race track the costs are pretty low.
    Last edited by redtopz; 01-19-2015, 10:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ucfbrett
    replied
    Bump.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pure EvoIX
    replied
    hahaha i don't need 6 engines -__-. Just 2 or 3. :P

    Leave a comment:

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