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Preloading swaybars

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  • Preloading swaybars

    Does anyone preload their swaybars? Do you find it helps settle the car left right transitions...essess?

  • #2
    I thought that was a no-no, that the bars had to be set to neutral with the driver in the car.
    www.TrackHQ.com

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    • #3
      Originally posted by fatbillybob View Post
      Does anyone preload their swaybars? Do you find it helps settle the car left right transitions...essess?
      There is no such thing as "preloading" sway bars. There is properly installed (with no preload) and/or corner weighted, and there is wrong (pre-loaded).

      Take a moment to think about how the sway bar works, specifically, what the other end is connected to. Pull it up or down and that force just rolls the car left or right since it's connected to the other side spring. Lengthening or shortening one side end link would add wedge, messing up cross weights.
      WWW.949RACING.COM
      SuperMiata

      Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
      But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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      • #4
        Originally posted by emilio700 View Post

        There is no such thing as "preloading" sway bars. There is properly installed (with no preload) and/or corner weighted, and there is wrong (pre-loaded).

        Lengthening or shortening one side end link would add wedge, messing up cross weights.
        Yes that is the conventional wisdom. Adding wedge can mess up the cross or you can use the sway just like any spring and set the cross where ever you want. I think a suspension loaded then unloaded is like a piston on crankshaft or distributor points there is a dwell of dead time. What if you could reduce the dwell by adding in say 1/2% of preload on 49.5% cross? Then you would have 50% cross and an additional way to fine tune and take the dwell out of the suspension. What does Rob say? Don't the circle track guys play with this stuff?

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        • #5
          It is conventional wisdom because twisting the sway bars in an otherwise cornerweighted car would make the car turn one direction better than the other.

          Are you talking about oval track setup? Adding wedge for road course is sort of an advanced thing but it's done with spring preload, not twisting the sway bars. You seem to be under the impression that they will work "better", if they are twisted. A properly engineered sway sway bar in low friction mounts has a very linear spring rate. No gains from adding preload to it in other words.
          WWW.949RACING.COM
          SuperMiata

          Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
          But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

          Comment


          • #6
            Forum is a bit slow. So stuff just oozes out of my head. Thanks for your indulgence...

            Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
            It is conventional wisdom because twisting the sway bars in an otherwise cornerweighted car would make the car turn one direction better than the other.
            yes if the final corners do not result in a 50% cross. You can cornerweight or scale the car with a combo of springs and bars for a 50% cross. After all springs and bars have to work together dynamically anyway. In fact I am of the opinion there should be a modification in the conventional wisdom setup or a corollary. <<If you have adjustable endlinks then follow conventional wisdom. If endlinks are fixed then scale the car with bar attached (because a fixed bar is likely to be a preloaded bar). You can still get 50% cross that way. >> On my blunt instrument corvette 1 turn of the monoball of the endlink adds 0.1% to the cross.


            Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
            Are you talking about oval track setup?
            Well No but an oval is just left turns. For the most part WSIR and LRP and NOLA are mostly right hand turns. Except for stagger I think some of the oval track concepts could apply. My car does not know what track I am on. If you can make a car turn left more easily then you could make a car turn right easier on a right dominated track or made a car turn better for a really important turn before a long straight.


            Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
            Adding wedge for road course is sort of an advanced thing but it's done with spring preload, not twisting the sway bars. You seem to be under the impression that they will work "better", if they are twisted. A properly engineered sway sway bar in low friction mounts has a very linear spring rate.
            I do not see a difference between a coil spring and sway bar. Maybe I should. I just see wheel rate. The scale pad only sees a mass. Whether that mass is influenced by the coil or the bar seem not important. It only seems important that the coil and the sway work together. My pee brain is theorizing that more spring harmony might be found with some preload or mild twist of the sway setup with the conventional wisdom of 50% cross if you want equal left and right turns. It is kinda like the reason for helper springs and dual rate coilovers. I can see thread drift into a discussion to big bars/small springs vs. big springs/small bars.

            Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
            No gains from adding preload to it in other words.
            If there are any gains certainly is the bottom line. It gets worse thinking about this stuff when you add in shocks and throttle.



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            • #7
              You'd have diminishing wheel rate on one side as the suspension compressed, then it would rapidly increase again. Same in droop on the other side... Why would you want that for a road course car?

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